Ajahn Brahm：How to Mend a Broken Heart 你不一定要忘記她，才能重獲新生

Reporter’s Note：We interviewed Ajahn Brahm on love and life, whilst he was on his annual visit to Hong Kong earlier this year (2016). The pleasure was as much as the honour. In the light of his rich and unique insights, and in the hope to give our readers a glimpse of his wisdom, we have prepared three detailed interview reports. The remaining two are scheduled to be published in the next couple of weeks. May we offer our special thanks to Bodhinyana International Foundation for arranging the interview on our behalf.

(Ajahn Brahm is a British Theravada Buddhist monk born in London. He read theoretical physics at The University of Cambridge and graduated with first class honours. A year later, he traveled to Thailand to become a monk and to train with the Ajahn Chah Bodhinyana Mahathera. He is now the Abbot of Bodhinyana Monastery in Western Australia, and the Spiritual Director of the Buddhist Society of Western Australia, amongst others. He has been invited many a time to give seminars at the headquarters of Facebook, Google and the United Nations. The books he authored have been translated into many languages, including famously The Art of Disappearing, and Good? Bad? Who Knows?)

編按：Ajahn Brahm 2016年訪港時，本社有幸獲覺智國際基金會安排與他訪談，整理他對人生與感情的看法，分三周刊出。此為第一集。

Ajahn Brahm，生於倫敦，劍橋大學理論物理學一級榮譽畢業。出家為僧40多年，師隨南傳佛教（上座部）尊者阿姜查（Ajahn Chah）。時常獲邀到重要國際會議和跨國組織總部演講，如聯合國、Google、Facebook。著作風行全球，有多種語言譯本，如《禪悅在當下》、《好？壞？誰知道？》（本社特闢專欄轉載中譯本）。目前承擔多種佛教職務，為澳洲柏斯覺乘寺住持。Ajahn，泰語「老師」。

（何敏盈雙語撰寫 A Billingual Report by Man-ying A. Ho）

心碎 A Broken Heart

訪者：如何忘記曾經深愛的人？

Ajahn：我不會忘記。愛過的人是你的一部分，你要做的就只是接受，欣然接受。就像去聽音樂會一樣。我小時候聽過不少很好的音樂會，當演奏完畢，我總不能帶走優秀的樂手。這就如一段逝去的感情。我們曾經多麼幸福快樂，在一起的時光多麼美好，我真的很愛你、很關心你，得到過許多的幸福，謝謝你。——我們不必去看離別的傷口，那已經過去了，而且如果你夠睿智的話，會明白那是意料中事。總有一天，可能因為死亡，可能因為心意改變，這段感情會結束，但一切都很值得——很感謝你！

訪者：很難的，感情結束是很痛苦的事。我們可以如何復元？

Ajahn：我們之所以受傷，是因為把感情結束看成自己這個人的失敗，以至自我的意識受損了。其實我們並沒有做錯事，只是事情這麼發生了。但是女人會那樣想，男人也會那樣想——男人也會生氣，也會受重傷，像女人受重傷一樣。必須要心碎幾次，才會知道什麼是愛，不會第一次就能學懂的。戀愛之中你會愛上一個幻象，幻象破碎之後，你會哭泣，但你的心會開始知覺。愛之為愛，在於令你有所知覺。有些人為了不用受傷，把自己的心重重防衛起來。但你就是要去受傷呀，我們都是命中註定要去受傷的，welcome to life。

這種傷口，又甜蜜、又酸苦，初時實在痛不欲生，但過了幾天，或者幾個星期，你可能就會懷念這樣的經歷了。你撐過來了。特別是當你回頭看時，有時我也會想起……我那些女朋友。（訪者：請多說一點。）其中一段最長的感情，6個月左右。我們真的很……但當你只得19歲，那時候你其實不太清楚發生了什麼事，仍然在學習了解自己的感情，可以說是個感情盲。明明有些生命中很重要的事情發生了，但你還不明白，還不能好好引導它，最後你就把它結束了。然後你現在回頭看：當時如果能表達得好一點就好了。你要知道自己真正的感受，而且不要害怕。如果你真的很生氣，就要告訴他／她；如果你真的受不了他／她了，也要坦誠相告，而且要在一個容許彼此不完美的氣氛之下。美好關係的要訣之一，就在於此。

我不知道你的感情狀態怎樣，有時我們會花很多心力令自己完美，令自己好看。你頭髮打理得很好，個性也很好，但你這個人其實不在這裏，你很緊張。這往往就是出差錯的原因：不能放鬆，不能做自己。感情裏最大最好的得著，就是你可以放鬆自己，專注在那個人身上。他愛你夠深，愛上了真正的你，當你犯錯了也能夠告訴你。那就是我父親教會我的：你做過什麼也好，我的心門永遠為你打開。

"When the fantasy gets broken, that's when you cry, but afterwards, your heart feels. And that's what love is, it feels."

Interviewer：How do you forget someone you once deeply loved?

Ajahn：I’ll never forget them. It’s a part of you. All you do is, again, embrace that. And it’s like music concerts. I went to some great music concerts when I was young. And they were finished, they ended, I couldn’t take those great musicians back home with me, so it’s like having a love affair. It’s finished, it’s ended, there’s so much happiness and joy you’ve had, whilst we have such a wonderful time together. I really loved you and cared for you and had so much happiness, thank you. So you never look at the pain of the parting, it’s over and you expected that – if you are wise. And some day, maybe with deaths, or we move on, but it’s worth it. Thank you so much!

Interviwer：But it’s difficult……because when it ends it hurts badly. How do we recover?

Ajahn：One of those things we hurt, we take it too personally, we think that we have failed. It’s a sense of self which has been damaged, but you’ve done nothing wrong. It happens. Don’t take it as a personal failure. This is what women do, what men do, it’s what actually we equally get mad, men really hurt badly, as much as women do. You have to have your heart broken a few times for you know what love is, you can’t expect just to get it right the first time. In the affair you just fall in love with the fantasy. When the fantasy gets broken, that’s when you cry, but afterwards, your heart feels. And that’s what love is, it feels. And the mistake is when people put their heart in a concrete bunker so they don’t get hurt again. But you have to get hurt again, welcome to life.

And it’s a very sweet and sour hurt, yeah it really hurts badly but after a few days, or a few weeks, you would miss that experience, you survive. Especially when you look back and I have a look back at my, my……yeah, girlfriends. (Interviewer: Tell me more about your girlfriends?) Well one of the longest affairs, it’s about 6 months. We really love to……but you weren’t really aware enough. You don’t exactly know what that was, you were learning your emotions because you were only 19. It’s like you’re emotionally illiterate, something really big was happening but you couldn’t really understand it. So you really couldn’t sort of guide it. So in the end you just put it out and you look back and know that, just a bit more of expressing yourself to your girlfriend, and now you know how you feel and not be afraid of that. Learning to know if you’re really pissed off at her today, letting her know that and letting him know that, that you’re really fed up with him today – share it. And doing that in a context of that you’re allowed to be imperfect, which is another very key thing to a good relationship.

I don’t know about your relationships but sometimes you try so hard to make yourself look nice and be perfect: your hair is nice, and you know your character is nice, and you’re really not here, you’re tense. And that’s one of the reasons why you keep stuffing it up, making mistakes, because you’re not relaxed, you’re not who you are. What’s really really wonderful in a relationship, when you’re really relaxed, when you’re in the presence of someone, who loves you enough, that they love you for who you are, and they enlighten your mistakes. That’s what my father taught me, to leave the door of my heart open for you no matter what you do.

吸引力 Attraction

Ajahn：對，你不需要完美，不需要每次見面都漂亮到無懈可擊，我們只要能一起歡笑就好了。你可以犯錯出糗，你知道你可以的。就像我和我一個女朋友一樣。我曾約她去一間昂貴的餐廳，然後發現自己沒有留座，而餐廳已經滿了，噢！我搞砸了！不如意事十常八九，你明明做足100分，但仍然會出差錯。我固然可以覺得尷尬啦，但我寧願大笑一場算了，然後就去享受這個不知如何了局的晚上——去別的地方不就好了！

訪者：你聽音樂嗎？或者有什麼娛樂嗎？

Ajajn：哈哈！我唯一會聽音樂的場合，就是在葬禮上。西方的葬禮常會播放亡者最愛的音樂。和我差不多年代的人，都陸陸續續的死了，所以我又聽到我最喜愛的音樂了。已經好多年沒有聽過。他們最愛的音樂，也正是我的最愛。而且，機場也會播放很多音樂。

訪者：那會很困擾你嗎？

Ajahn：近年不會了，音樂會喚起一些快樂的回憶。哈哈，我不介意告訴你一些秘密——披頭四的唱片 Sgt. Pepper’s Lonely Hearts Club Band 面世時，我第一次聽到是在一個派對上，在那裏我邂逅了我的初戀女友。（甜蜜的記憶。）對，甜蜜的記憶。我還記得她的名字，Mandy……

有一次，我在一個年輕人的會議上，與吉隆玻一些15至25歲的青少年見面。我把他們分成兩組，一組男，一組女。本來我應該教他們佛學，但當時我教得很有技巧，效果很好，我以後再也沒有這樣做過了。嗯，一開始，我問女孩子：「你喜歡怎樣的男孩？你會想和什麼類型的男孩出遊？有什麼特質你真的真的很喜歡？」男孩就專注聽著。這些女孩便開始說她們喜歡什麼樣的男生。會後男生都一咕嚕兒的謝我，說這是他們頭一遭知道怎樣吸引女孩子。而且不像他們以為的那樣。女孩子喜歡善良的人，這還遠遠拋離其他的特質呢。善良的人，打扮整齊，乾淨，聰明，相處輕鬆愉快，值得信任，不需要很硬朗。然後就到男孩子了。「好了，男孩子們，你喜歡怎樣的女孩子？喜歡和什麼類型的女孩出遊？可能以後會彼此相許的？」女孩都很專注的聽。

（訪者：美貌？哈哈！）你要長得還可以，意思是你不能醜得……醜得太過分。有些女孩子長相並不出眾，但可能為人很有意思，很善良，很溫暖，她們都很討男孩子喜歡，所以你不需要長得像超級模特兒。同樣地，男孩子覺得重要的是善良、可靠、可信、相處輕鬆愉快，並且隨和不苛求。（不苛求，我聽好些男性朋友說過。）對，所謂令人輕鬆愉快，就是少些憂慮，懂得沉思，懂得處理情緒——好多男孩女孩聽了都好像發現新大陸一樣。

其實佛教注重靈性的培養。哇，剛剛說的這些特質，難道不是佛理嗎？只是用了一個大家都津津有味的形式去教導而已。這樣大家都會百分百專注。如果我一開始就談什麼是「空」，恐怕大家都會沉沉睡去。但你跟15至25歲的人們談魅力，談吸引力，他們一定興致盅然。其實他們學的那種修練方向，就是我們想他們修練的方向呀。

Ajahn：You don’t have to be perfect. And you don’t have to be just drop dead gorgeous every time I go out with you. We’ll just have a good laugh together. You made a mess and you know that you can, like I did with one girlfriend: take her out to expensive restaurant and found I didn’t make the booking and it’s full oh stuffed it up. And it’s this sort of things, you try your very best but you make mistakes. Instead of being embarrassed, you just laugh and enjoy just the uncertainty of your evening, just go somewhere else.

Interviwer：Do you listen to music? Or do you enjoy any form of entertainment?

Ajahn：Haha! The only time I do listen to music it’s because you can’t avoid it these days. It’s when I go to funeral service, cause funeral services in the west, they always play the favorite music of the one who’s died. And now that people of my age are starting to die, so I’m hearing my favorite music again. Music that haven’t heard for years. Because it’s their favorite music and my favorite music as well. And also you know in airports, there’s so much music around.

Interviwer：Does that annoy you, no?

Ajahn：No not these days, sometimes it’s about some happy memories of music. And, haha, I don’t mind letting you in on my secrets because I remember when Sgt. Pepper’s Lonely Hearts Club Band, the Beatles album first came out, I remember just first time I heard it at the party, the girlfriend I met there, just I associate it with the girlfriend. (Interviewer: Sweet memories.) Sweet memories. Yeah. I remember her name now, Mandy……

You know what I did once, It was a youth conference years ago, with 15- to 25- year-olds in Kuala Lumpur. I split them up into two groups: girls and boys. And I was supposed to be teaching them Buddhism but how I taught it, it was very skillful, it went very well, I haven’t done it again since. Eh first of all, all the girls, “What would you like in a guy? What type of guy you’d like to go out with? What the qualities you really really like?” And so all the guys are listening. All the girls were talking about what they like in a guy. And the guys told me afterwards, “Thank you thank you thank you. This is the first time we’ve ever found out what we’re supposed to do to be attractive to a girl.” And the sort of things they heard were not the sort of things they expected. They want someone who’s kind. That was way up on top of the list: a kind guy; well-groomed, clean and smart, fun to be with but they didn’t have to be tough. Dependable, trustworthy. That was important to them. And you know once I got all that from the girls, then that was the guys’ turn. “Now guys, what would you like in a girl? What sort of girls would you like to go out with? And maybe a commitment later on?” And all the girls were really listening.

(Interviewer：Being beautiful? Haha!) You got to be reasonably good looking but what I mean you don’t……not really ugly. But some girls were not that good looking but they’re so fun to be with, and they’re so kind and they’re so warm, and guys love them. So you don’t have to be like a supermodel. And again, what was important to the guys, and they said she has to be kind, dependable and trustworthy and fun to be with, not too demanding. (Not too demanding, I heard that from many guy friends. Friends of mine. ) Yeah you know being fun to be with means you don’t have so much worries, you can meditate, you have good emotional intelligence, and that was just an eye-opener for the boys and girls.

But the sort of things you encourage you know in some of Buddhism is spirituality. Wow, that was actually Buddhism, but taught in a way where everyone was incredibly interested, paying 100% attention. If I start talking about the nature of emptiness, then they’ll fall asleep. You tell 15- to 25- year-olds how to be hot, how to be so attractive, they’re really interested. And they’re developing the same thing which you wanted them to develop.

「我們」Us

訪者：很多人只看重事業與感情，這樣不太好。

Ajahn：不平衡，因為，女人在感情上，很容易不斷不斷不斷不斷不斷付出，然後就無以為繼了，所以我祝福婚姻的時候，總是告訴新婚夫婦：太太不要只想自己，先生不要只想自己，但是太太也不要只想丈夫，丈夫也不要只想太太。許多婚姻問題，是出於大家看不到第三條路：就是說，只應該去想「我們」。有問題的時候，不是他的問題，不是她的問題，是「我們」的問題。你不需要為誰犧牲。（訪者：二合為一。）二合為一。佛教總是關懷「我們」的。這關乎我們如何與生活相處。獨處時你也要和自己相處。

訪者：我想許多人都忘記了和自己相處。

Ajahn: 對，而當你有伴侶時——就像現在，我和你在一起，你訪問我，這也是一段情誼，屬於我們的。不是只有我，你並不只在訪問我，你是在訪問「我們」。

訪者：好。噢我忘了想問什麼……和你一起我總是忘記要問什麼。嗯，你覺得結婚是好事嗎？

Ajahn：可以是好事，就像生命中所有事情。你可以選擇出家，同時把出家的生活弄得一團糟。說起來澳洲最近有個天主教神父侵犯孩子——神父本來可以活得很精彩，過一種仁慈、侍奉、犧牲的生活，但也可以過得很不像話。正如出家也可以舒舒服服的，過得比大款還豪奢，但那是不對的。出家好不好，視乎你怎樣出家，談戀愛一樣，結婚也是一樣。尤其是……有時我會奇怪為什麼有些人結婚，會想得到宗教上的許可，比如說請個出家人去祝福這段婚姻之類，明明這個出家人從未結婚啊。為什麼呢？因為婚姻關乎靈性。婚姻就是——你要提升自己到一個新階段：無我。婚前你要去哪裏、做什麼，都可以，婚後你要為了「我們想怎樣」，放棄許多「我想怎樣」。

訪者：你說情感連繫是很美麗的，（笑）沒再談戀愛你後悔嗎？

Ajahn：我有情感連繫啊，（訪者：跟自己？）也跟其他人。現在我跟你也有情感連繫。無關性，無關浪漫，也不恒久——不過跟任何人我都可以結緣。有人問我不會想要小孩嗎，我說我把許多人都視如己出啊。（是種不一樣的愛吧。）哦，這種愛純粹得多。（對，無條件的。）無條件得我根本不會去挽留你。你想走的話，就走吧。這就是美好的愛了。（希望我也能做到。）那很了不起。就像祖孫的感情。每當他們出了什麼事，總有個人可以倚靠——對很多小孩來說，那個人就是我。（很好。）任何困難……比如感情快要破裂了，他們很痛苦的時候，很難去找爸爸媽媽，反而來找個僧人。

他們就像你這樣坐在我面前，我會跟他們說話。（訪者：他們好幸運。）哦，我總是顧念什麼對他們最好。我永遠不會批評、傷害、責備他們。所以就像他們的……祖父，我不得不說我樂在其中啊。（他們有你是多麼幸運。）我理應如此。

Interviewer：For many people a career and a romantic relationship mean every thing in their life.

Ajahn：It’s not balanced. Because, again, with women, in a relationship, they tend to be the ones who keep giving giving giving giving giving, and after a while they feel burn out, which is why when I do marriage blessings, I always tell the couple in a marriage, the wife mustn’t think of herself, the husband mustn’t think of himself, but also the husband mustn’t think of his wife, and the wife mustn’t think of her husband. There’s a third option which people always miss, which creates the problem of marriage. They must only think of us, together. And so that’s why if there’s any problem, it’s our problem, it’s not his problem, it’s not her problem, it’s not my problem, it’s our problem, which means you don’t just sacrifice for the other person. (Interviewer: Yeah because you become one, you become us.) Become us. Buddhism is always about us. It’s the relationship we have with life. So when you’re by yourself, you have a relationship with yourself.

Interviewer：I think many people have forgotten this: a relationship with yourself.

Ajahn：Yeah and when you’re with a partner, you know when I’m with you, interviewing me, so this is a relationship, it’s about us. It’s not about me, cause you know you’re not really interviewing me, you’re interviewing us.

Interviewer：Good. I have forgotten my question……I keep forgetting my questions in front of you. So do you think marriage is a good thing?

Ajahn：It can be, like everything else in life. You can become a monk or a nun and make a terrible life for yourself. Just recently in Australia we have a Catholic priest who’s been abusing children. Being a Catholic priest can be a wonderful life of service and kindness and sacrifice, but you can do it terribly. You can become a Buddhist monk and just live so comfortably and be richer than sort of a tycoon. That’s wrong. So being a monk is how you’re a monk, and in a marriage is what you do in that marriage. So it can be a wonderful thing for a person, especially……I always wonder why it is that people when they get married, they want some religious aspect to it, a monk to give a blessing, when a monk is never been married. Why is that? Because there is something spiritual about marriage. And what it really is – it’s taking you to another higher level of selflessness. Before marriage you can just go what you wanna do what you want, in a marriage you have to really let go a lot of what I want for what we want.

Interviewer：You see romantic relationships are beautiful, (jokingly) so isn’t it a regret that you don’t have one now?

Ajahn：I have relationships (Interviewer: with yourself?) and with people. I have a relationship with you now. It’s not sexual, it’s not romantic, it’s not permanent, but with every person I’m with. People said “Don’t you miss having children?” I said I regard so many people as my kids. (Different kind of love I guess.) Oh it’s a much pure one. (Yeah unconditional.) It’s so unconditional and I’m not gonna hold you. You know when you leave, you leave. It’s a beautiful love. (I wish I can do that.) Yeah it’s wonderful. It’s the same in all relationship with your grandchildren cause all these boys and girls, whenever they get in trouble, you know they got another person they can come to and that’s myself. (Good.) Any difficulties, their relationships are really falling apart, and they’re really suffering. They can’t really go to their mum and dad but they come to a monk.

They sit down like you’re sitting down now, and you talk with them. (Interviewer: They’re lucky.) Oh I have got their best interest at heart, and I would never ever criticise them, I’ll never hurt them. You don’t do hurt, don’t do pain, you don’t do scolding. And that means so they got this……I’m their grandfather. And I really enjoy that – I must admit. (They’re lucky to have you.) I must do that.